Angela Connell-Richards: 0:27

Welcome everybody to the RTO Superhero Podcast, where my guest Maycek is joining me again today, who's currently caravanning around Australia visiting his clients. How is the caravan trip going, maycek?

Maciek Fibrick: 0:43

Absolutely brilliant. So I've made it down to now, melbourne, so in the, I'll be in this area for a couple more weeks and uh, and then slowly heading my way south or west I should say um and doing the lap over the next 11 months. So yeah, visiting clients as I go yeah, it's very exciting.

Angela Connell-Richards: 1:02

We're going to be doing the same next year. So Dave and I are going to do the lap around Australia and we're focused on yes, we're going to go visit some clients as well as our team members. So we've got team members in Perth and Melbourne and Queensland, so we're going to go catch up with them, or we should catch up with some of our other colleagues, but we're also going to go check out music festivals around Australia, because that's a big lump of Dave and I's music.

Maciek Fibrick: 1:34

So, yes, I look forward to seeing that, and you never know, we might still cross paths at your beginning and my end.

Angela Connell-Richards: 1:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we're doing a few caravan trips this year, so maybe we'll catch up with you sometime this year as well.

Maciek Fibrick: 1:49

So I think Coaching by the campfire.

Angela Connell-Richards: 1:53

Yes, I think a lot of people like it's a lot of people I know are doing this lap around Australia and I think, you know, coming out of COVID, we've all decided that maybe we should see a bit more of our own country, so and it's a great way to do it.

Maciek Fibrick: 2:11

I think in the Caribbean, I mean, if there's one place that I sort of people say, oh, what's your goal? And I'm like to make it home safe, but my plan is just to work from as many amazing places as I possibly can and to be parked up on a beach and that's your office for the day or for the week.

Angela Connell-Richards: 2:28

it's a pretty amazing office yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, I agree, and I think being able to get out and actually see different places, like there's so many clients that I've never met because they're in remote locations, so yeah, so it's going to be great to catch up with them as well. All right, so the theme for today's podcast is the future of vocational education and training. So in our last episode, we talked about the new standards, the requirements, ascqa, audits and things like that, so now let's have a look at the future of education In particular. We have a federal election looming ahead, so I'd love to know, maychek, what are your thoughts if we were to have a change of government, what do you think the impact might be on the VET reform?

Maciek Fibrick: 3:24

Look. Firstly, with regards to the federal election, I think it's safe to say and I don't think I'm going to be upsetting too many people by saying this Labor has really pushed for this TAFE fee-free process around Australia. Personally and it's my opinion, I think it's really unfair that our industry is being segregated between public fee-free and private training, especially given the recent reports that continue to come out in terms of completion rates and so forth. So I think there's always going to be a spot for TAFE in the market and they do such an amazing job. There needs to be a balance between saying the only way that you can get a free vocational education is going to TAFE. I think that's a little bit unfair.

Maciek Fibrick: 4:33

Yes, every state body has their own funding process as well, but I think that the balance has definitely shifted. Let me pull out the crystal ball. Let me pull out the crystal ball If there was going to be a change of government and the Liberal Nationals got back in. I don't know if it's going to necessarily change immediately, but I think that there will be a slow push for, I guess, the equality coming back in to the vet space. Well, at least I hope there will be.

Angela Connell-Richards: 5:12

In funding you're talking about In?

Maciek Fibrick: 5:13

funding specifically, but then also with regards to the changes that we're seeing. Some of these changes are probably going to be the most significant changes the vocational space has seen in a very long time. I don't know if there will be a significant change or a deviation from the path that we're currently on, and because I actually think that there could be some benefit in some of the changes that they're proposing.

Angela Connell-Richards: 5:44

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that as well. Yeah, yeah, I, I agree with that as well. Um, one of the things that I um I focus on, the skills reform has been something that's been in process since 2008 2009, so it's not something new and it was actually created by the previous government. So if there is a change of government, I don't think anything's going to change. The other side is, all of the heads of state have signed and agreed to this VET reform, so I can't see like. So some people are thinking that the compliance requirements and the outcome standards and the credential policy is all going to change if we get a change of government. I don't believe that at all. In my opinion, it's already under the VET heads of agreement. What are your thoughts on that?

Maciek Fibrick: 6:44

Look, I tend to agree. Heads of agreement. What are your thoughts on that? Look, I tend to agree. That said, whilst we may not see a change, given that we're so far down the track and they still are projecting that all of this will turn into legislation. It will be implemented on July 1. From my perspective, I've seen enough change in a short period of time to also be a little bit skeptical to say what's stopping them just putting out a whole new set of standards in three years' time? I mean, if we go back to 1999, what did we have? 2002, 2005, 2007,. We had an AQTF 0tf 0507, then 11. So you know, over the years we've had three to four year terms of we also had 2011, 2012 and 2015 you know, and so.

Maciek Fibrick: 7:39

So nothing. I guess um will surprise me. Nowadays, uh, with regards to what's possible with the change of government, it seems that every minister, every prime minister, wants to sort of leave a legacy or leave a mark of some sort, and so, look, I don't know, I'm hoping, not, I'm hoping that I've actually enjoyed this 10 years of stability that we've had. But that said, I think there's also, outside of compliance, I think the industry is a little bit I won't use the word screwed, but maybe it is a little bit screwed in terms of how many different qualifications, training packages, units of competency, all of these different things for the same thing working at heights in different industries. Then we've got one unit of competency that's taught across multiple sectors. So I think there needs to be a level of simplicity and a removal of this constant need to redo units of competency just for the sake of redoing it, because the new versions come out.

Angela Connell-Richards: 9:01

Yeah, yeah and having that constant change. So thinking, okay, if we pull out, government changes and you know the election, how do you think the new standards are going to impact our sector and the future of our sector?

Maciek Fibrick: 9:23

Good question the new standards themselves. Like, I think, with any standard or with any change, we hope that ultimately it provides a positive change. Having been around now, as I said, 26 years now, I also know that anyone that wants to do the wrong thing will continue to do the wrong thing. Anyone that wants to do the right thing will often complain that doing the right thing costs too much money, and so I hope that these new standards find a balance between the regulator the biggest regulator, asqa having the capacity to look at the ones that are doing the wrong thing. But from a standards perspective, I don't think we're going to see a huge amount of change in our industry, because I don't see a huge amount of change in the actual standards themselves as well. There's some nice changes, but I don't think there's anything huge that really should be shocking too many people.

Angela Connell-Richards: 10:30

So a big component of the VET reform is around, and the whole reason why it came about is industry were stating that students weren't coming out work ready and they didn't have the current skills and knowledge, in particular, when it came to technology and equipment that they needed to use in the workplace. So it's interesting to hear that you say that. Okay, your thoughts are, there hasn't been a major change with the legislation, but keeping in front of mind the fact that the whole point of all this was to improve our vocational outcomes, what do you think we need to do as RTOs to improve our outcomes? If we can't rely on the standards, what is it that we need to do to ensure that our students are work ready?

Maciek Fibrick: 11:28

I'm going to sound old here. I think we need to go back to the days where society appreciated education for what it was, Using the most common and probably one of the biggest units of competency that we've got first aid. Let's reflect on what first aid used to look like 20 years ago. It was a two-day St John's or whichever provider, a two-day accredited course. Then it became a unit of competency and standardized and everyone taught that one unit and then it became almost like a fight to the fastest and the cheapest course.

Angela Connell-Richards: 12:03

Yeah.

Maciek Fibrick: 12:04

Let's have a look at our TAE as a product it's you know, if the moment you become expensive, you've got to have a reputation that exists in the industry for so many years. For people to want to pay for that Funding has a lot to do with our desire to have everything free or cheap. And then society as a workforce, we don't value the time that people are spending being educated as an upskilled and becoming an asset within industry. I think society needs to. Society maybe is the wrong word, but we as a workforce need to start to also appreciate that as providers, our clients, I guess, have a desire to provide quality education. But if they're being, if the focus point is the least amount of time out of the workplace and the cheapest course, how is anyone supposed to provide quality training and assessment?

Maciek Fibrick: 13:10

Yeah yeah, so the standards may change, the training packages may change, but I think we as a workforce need to go back to the appreciation that to have a quality workforce, we also need to invest in that workforce.

Angela Connell-Richards: 13:24

In quality education and not trying to cut everything short. Yeah, just to complete.

Maciek Fibrick: 13:31

It's not a fight to the bottom, it's a fight. It should become a fight for quality and we should be choosing our providers based on the outcomes, like when you enrol. When have you heard any one of your clients say to you oh, it was so nice, a person was wanting to enrol in my program and asked me can I have a look at your learning and assessment material? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't happen. We go off the okay, the Google reviews and we go off how schmick their website might look and so forth. But realistically we go, oh, that's going to take two weeks to complete and it's $1,000, but I can do it in a week. And that's going to take two weeks to complete and it's a thousand dollars, but I can do it in a week and it's going to cost me four hundred dollars. Why? Why would I want to spend two weeks studying?

Angela Connell-Richards: 14:17

we've got to change the mindset of we're buying our certificate to we're investing in our education 100 and, and so I know we're sort of going on a tangent here.

Maciek Fibrick: 14:30

so I don't know whether whether the standards or or the reforms will do too much to change that, unless we start to really sort of put a public campaign out to say, look, it takes time in terms of the volume of learning, because I think it's a misguided number to look at that. But there is some level of comfort knowing that we are trying to set a benchmark, and a Certificate III in individual support should never take two weeks to complete, let alone two months. Yeah, two weeks to complete let alone two months.

Angela Connell-Richards: 15:11

Yeah, one thing that I have noticed some changes in the legislation that I thought was a good positive is work integrated learning. So they've now got a much bigger emphasis on how we're integrating the learning into the work environment. So not necessarily work placement, but hands-on skills, simulated environments and things like that. I think that's a really good positive. But once again, we don't know how we're going to be audited on that and whether RTOs will take it up.

Maciek Fibrick: 15:46

But you know what's funny is, and you know, last episode I spoke about that pendulum of compliance. You know what you described there could also you could easily say well, isn't that what apprenticeships and traineeships were? Yeah, and so how many years ago were they calling the TAE should be a traineeship, so that you're actually going into an RTO. So that you're actually going into an RTO because and again, one of the changes I guess with the new standards is that, if you're correct me if I'm wrong, I believe, if you have enrolled you can start to train as long as you finish within a certain period of time, if you have relevant industry experience first.

Angela Connell-Richards: 16:27

Yep, you have to be enrolled and under supervision.

Maciek Fibrick: 16:33

And have done at least one unit within this period of time.

Angela Connell-Richards: 16:36

I think it was, and you have to complete it within two years.

Maciek Fibrick: 16:39

Correct. Now I actually like that concept. Yep same. If you know, how many trainers and assessors have you seen out there that are textbook trainers? Okay, they've done a course. Oh, now I want to become a trainer, or I'll see on certain chats. You know I'm a trainer in management, business, individual support and childcare and I sort of sit there going really.

Angela Connell-Richards: 17:07

They're very curious they're very serious.

Maciek Fibrick: 17:17

Um, so you know, this concept of having have having our trainers and assessors almost commoditized, as as a person that has a qualification and the tae and therefore they're a trainer and assessor because they can teach off learner guides or textbooks and so forth, I really don't like that no, they should be drawing from their experience, like that's what students want Correct, and so the more experts that we can get in and remove the barrier as a trainer and assessor, the better our industry will be.

Maciek Fibrick: 17:46

How many? My background was beauty therapy, obviously starting out as a beauty our first beauty RTO. So back in the day, it was like to have a beauty therapist come in or to go to a product company and get them to do a few sessions on their products, and that's what we should be looking at. Brick layers, who have been brickies for years. They're the best ones to teach because they can teach from experience, and so I think there's positives there, and I think they're some of the back-to-basics that we need to also look at and change the model of our or change our delivery models to incorporate more of that.

Angela Connell-Richards: 18:28

Yeah, yeah. And then, going back to what we were talking about in the last episode as well, is government funding and that this is where it makes it very difficult, because Australians in general don't value education and they don't like to pay for it, whereas, interestingly, international students will come to Australia and pay money if they can get into Australia and get a visa. That's another episode, that's another conversation. It definitely is, but they will value coming to Australia and paying for their education. But unfortunately, from what I see, we definitely have a culture in Australia that we don't value education.

Maciek Fibrick: 19:16

Yeah, I certainly do. It's a sad reality, it really is, and that's not to. I guess it's stereotyping us as a nation, but I think you're right. I think especially employers and, again, stereotyping. There are a lot of good quality employers out there that value that, but you know, this is where I sort of find it frustrating, because how many of your clients will employ a trainer and not even spend two hours inducting them? Yes, yes, and you sit there and you go. Guys, we're in the business of education, we're in the business of changing people's lives people's lives as an rto. Our 100 focus should also be on upskilling our own team and and doing everything possible to make them the best possible trainer and assessor they can be.

Angela Connell-Richards: 20:20

Yet we don't invest in them as a workforce yeah, yeah, and which is what all the VET workforce side of quality area is, but also the VET blueprint, I think. So I'll be interested to see where more of that comes out and what will be the requirements there. But I've met trainers who've never seen a training and assessment strategy or don't even know what it is, and I'll ask them what it is.

Maciek Fibrick: 20:51

People are laughing about it, but it is a sad reality that our industry that relies on our providers, our clients, sometimes doesn't get it right and I think that needs to change as well.

Angela Connell-Richards: 21:06

I think the Cert IV in Training and Assessment should include a unit on writing your trainer's matrix and a unit on writing or unpacking a training and assessment strategy.

Maciek Fibrick: 21:20

Yeah, look, like I said, I think there's merit based on the calls for the CERT4 in training and assessment to be in a traineeship. I think the concept now to be an expert and come in and almost be not so much a traineeship but maybe be a mentorship you know where someone takes you under their wing and and guides you through the process so that you know you're not expected to understand the vet sector in, let's call it, two months, three months, uh, some, there's still providers out there doing it in 10 days okay, I was gonna say 10, but let's go five.

Maciek Fibrick: 22:02

Right, like how, how do we, how do we expect our industries plural to grow when the basis of the education that the vet sector is as flawed as it is at the moment?

Angela Connell-Richards: 22:18

yeah, with trainers and assessors, not uh like, as had pointed out, they don't even know what a trainer's matrix is, or like the amount of people I see in chat groups who are asking does anybody know how to write a trainer's matrix? I'll pay you to do it for me, yep.

Maciek Fibrick: 22:38

Like GPT Yep.

Angela Connell-Richards: 22:41

And I think the core You're experts right, yes, yes.

Angela Connell-Richards: 22:45

I've actually built a bot on how to write a trainer's matrix using ChatGPT. So, yeah, it is so much easier now. But the thing is we do and hopefully this is what will come under the VET workforce blueprint is how we succession planning through the rto, but also building better trainers and assessors by getting the rtos involved as part of that continuous improvement process. So there should be like how many like?

Angela Connell-Richards: 23:41

I've worked as a trainer and assessor and I think I delivered training for about six years before I got into the other side of running RTOs. Not once did I have anybody come in and sit on my class. Yeah, yeah, I used to do it all the time with my trainers. I'd sit in on their class and just see what the experience is like for the student and see what they're like, in particular when they first started, just so that I knew that they were delivering the way I wanted to deliver, not sitting in front of the classroom reading the textbook around the new standards, use the new standards as a path to say, all right, every one of the trainers and assessors has to pick out one particular criteria, present on it, explain how it's going to work and so forth.

Maciek Fibrick: 24:33

But at the same time it's not hard to. With one of my clients recently I was sort of brainstorming and said how hard would it be that in a let's call a monthly trainer meeting, you all allocate one topic in your vocation to bring to the table for a 10, 15-minute session to upskill each other. And then on alternate months you do that. But you pick a topic like unpacking a training package, unpacking or writing a training assessment strategy or a matrix, or validating a training and assessment strategy or a matrix, or validating, like we're talking about six months of professional development of your vocation and six months of vocational education and training. It's not difficult to find six topics in each to bring to the table and say, right, everyone does a 10-minute presentation.

Angela Connell-Richards: 25:23

Yeah, but I think the onus needs to be on the RTO to make sure that their trainers are doing that absolutely, and but.

Maciek Fibrick: 25:30

But you know, we, we talk about the, the cost of compliance or the pain of compliance. Even make it fun, right, it doesn't need to be a burden on the rto. When, like, how many times does a? Again, I used the comment last, uh, last episode about you know how hard it would be to run a cafe versus an rto. And it's like, how many times does a coffee owner turn around and say, oh, can you make me a coffee? Just want to see how it's tasting at the moment? Right, they're testing their staff, they're testing their ability. We are in the business of education, let's take that seriously.

Angela Connell-Richards: 26:06

Yeah, yeah. And as leaders in the VET, what are you doing to help not only your trainers and assessors but everyone on your team when it comes to understanding the compliance requirements and, as I have said before, the culture of compliance throughout the organisation? And I'm hoping that the new VET workforce blueprint is going to be that guide and answer to for RTOs, and I hope they don't see it as a burden. I hope they see it as an opportunity for improving their practices. It's also another piece of material they can use for marketing. If they wanted to deliver training, yep.

Maciek Fibrick: 26:53

But I think, at the same time, we just really need to, as an industry, step up as a whole and we don't need another blueprint Like it's great that we're working on it, but we, we just need to step up and and also just say we are committed to doing this. And we know change takes time. We know change management is difficult. But if we start and and go through and say, okay, you know, the next time I hear someone say, oh, but that's not how I did it back then. Or old mate down the road does it that way, so I'm going to do it that way. Or when I was training, it was done like this.

Maciek Fibrick: 27:32

It's like you know what Society has changed over the last 20 years? Our approach has changed. The way that we use technology has changed AI. I mean, we're in an era not even an era. We're in a time now where the change that we're going to see now is faster than ever that we've ever experienced and RTOs businesses that are not using AI for every aspect of their business are just going to fall behind.

Maciek Fibrick: 28:00

Way behind yeah yeah, how much easier is it to use AI to come up with a draft session plan. That used to take us a day or a day and a half can now be done in 15 minutes, right, and so you then have a day that you never used to have to focus on the quality of looking after your students or upskilling yourself or whatever it is.

Angela Connell-Richards: 28:23

Yeah, even if it's learning more about how to use AI in your work. Yeah, yeah.

Maciek Fibrick: 28:30

That's good in the future.

Angela Connell-Richards: 28:32

Yeah, I found a great new. Well, it's not new, it's been around for a little while, but presentationsai Trainers should be using that. Oh my goodness, like basically you could just upload your training material and it will create a whole PowerPoint presentation for you using that.

Maciek Fibrick: 28:50

But yeah, we can no longer accept the excuse of I don't have time, time right, yeah, it's it's. I don't have knowledge and and I don't have a desire to learn and upskill myself and this is going back to that workforce development mean. We are living at a time where our workforce development process and our personal development is so important.

Angela Connell-Richards: 29:12

Yeah, yeah, definitely, because things are changing so quickly. If you are not keeping up now, you're going to fall behind very quickly. Like I've been using AI and building a chat GPT bot I've got three or four of them now since for two years over two years now and when you think about that, compared to people just starting now, like we're leaps and bounds ahead. Like I've got bots that are totally trained in certain areas one for RTO, one for Cryos and then I've just got one on assessment tools, so it just makes our whole team use it and it's so much easier and I also think, though, that the people that, um, aren't creative enough or aren't, uh, committed enough to upskilling themselves, it will be.

Maciek Fibrick: 30:00

they try something. It doesn't work, and, and you know hopefully you don't mind me swearing this, but you know, it really is shitting shit out, yes, and the moment that someone sees rubbish coming out, they go, oh, this is rubbish. But they haven't actually taken the time to explore how amazing this opportunity is.

Angela Connell-Richards: 30:20

Yeah, you can't just take the first thing that comes out of ChatGPT Like it does take time to train it, like you've got to train. It's like training a new team member who has just come out of university, but they don't know how to do things your way.

Maciek Fibrick: 30:35

Correct and I always call it. It's your dumbest, smartest intern that you'll ever have.

Angela Connell-Richards: 30:40

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And when we talk about the future of education, this is very like I didn't have this topic to talk about AI, but AI definitely is the future of education and everyone in any workforce it doesn't matter whether you're in a vocational education or any other workforce you need to be looking at how you can use AI to streamline, improve, save time, save money. All the problems that we've had running businesses or in our workspace time, money and compliance is solved by using the tech that is out there.

Maciek Fibrick: 31:23

Absolutely. And this is the crazy thing, right? Like I said, it's not time now, it's knowledge and the lack of knowledge about using it, but the amount of times at conferences over the last two years, since really AI came to the forefront and obviously it's been around for years, but now it's in the palm of our hand literally the trainers would say, oh, I'm concerned about my job and AI. You know AI is going to take over and initially I thought no, no, no, no. But now I'm sort of going you know what with that attitude, you probably should be concerned that you'll lose your job, because the ones that are good, the trainers that are passionate about what they do with the experience, will never lose their job because they're going to be the that, that point between AI and the students need for human interaction and and to learn from someone right. Yes, there's different types of learners and so forth, but, as a trainer and assessor, if you are good at what you do, you will become better through this technology.

Angela Connell-Richards: 32:26

Yeah, most definitely, and I compare where we are now with I'm a bit older than you, maycheck but when I first got into the workforce, I had just learnt how to use WordPerfect and a computer and I was placed into a position. It was in public service and I had I was called a WP operator and I had 12 people in front of me who filled in paper-based documents and it basically was a printout of the letter with the missing part of the name, address, phone, phone number, whatever it was concerning, and then they'd give it to me and then I'd had to type it. I changed that to a form that they had to fill in and I built macros and I would then do merge fields and streamlined it and in the end, all those 12 people who didn't want to learn how to use a computer all lost their job because they didn't want to take on the new technology and I'd streamlined everything that they only needed one person to do the job of 12, because we use technology.

Maciek Fibrick: 33:47

And look, I think there's a lesson in that, even in today's society where trainers, again, over the years, you hear so many people oh, I don't have an ability to plan out my lesson or that artio hasn't prepared, provided me anything, as you know, up you can upload a learner guide, you can have it written for you. Then upload it and say, hey, create a four-day session plan with these breaks, breaking it down, and then upload a PowerPoint and say, now develop that session plan with which PowerPoint's done, et cetera, and you're literally done in half an hour 45 minutes. Yeah, and that used to take a week and I used to appreciate that they didn't have time. Time just cannot be an excuse anymore.

Angela Connell-Richards: 34:34

Not an excuse anymore. No, no, you've got to learn the tech. Take the time to learn the tech because it's going to save you time and possibly save your job.

Maciek Fibrick: 34:45

Yep, I agree. So, yeah, look, I think there's a lot happening in the vet space and the workforce space, but I definitely think that what a lot of people think that policy might change things, I think again, as a society, we need to. What a lot of people think that policy might change things. I think again, as a society, we need to do a lot of re-evaluation.

Angela Connell-Richards: 35:02

Yeah, yeah, most definitely, and I think you know this nicely wraps up this episode is very much. I think everyone needs to take responsibility when it comes to developing the workforce and making sure that everyone understands what are their responsibilities within the RTO, when it comes to compliance, but also when it comes to workforce readiness. What are we doing to teach our students and how are we incorporating that work into grad learning and making sure that they are applying the skills on a number of occasions, so that we don't get to this stage again where industry is saying, well, students are coming out and they're not ready and they don't know the tech and they don't know the tools, and we need to do that.

Maciek Fibrick: 35:55

I think and I sort of preach, if you want to call it the word, the four A's right, and I call it the acquisition of knowledge, the absorption of that knowledge and skill, the application of it and then the assessing. And so those things often don't exist in our training, because we are taught in the moment, we're told to give it a go once and then we're assessed straight after.

Angela Connell-Richards: 36:22

If you're lucky, some people get assessed straight up.

Maciek Fibrick: 36:26

Right.

Maciek Fibrick: 36:26

And so when I start saying to people you need to give time to absorb, and this is where I guess that volume of learning concept is there and I appreciate that, but I think it's just outdated in terms of the the amount.

Maciek Fibrick: 36:42

But you need to give people time to, to learn to, to go and practice those skills and and apply them in a real sense, because a lot of people will only remember that once they've had a good practice a few times and then once you're confident that they have that skill. And again, if you go back to the definition of competency and without you know verbatim, you know reciting it, but you know it's about meeting the standards of the workplace to the requirements of either of the unit of competency or whatever, in a range of context over a period of time. And that range of context that we often forget, that if someone can do something once, it doesn't make them competent, because what other context? Where is that? Transferability of skill? To another scenario, again, using beauty as an example, given that's where my background just because you can wax someone's leg, does that mean you're competent in waxing?

Angela Connell-Richards: 37:36

Yeah. Just because you can make one cup of coffee. Does that mean that you're a barista?

Maciek Fibrick: 37:42

absolutely, and you know, and even to the point where, even though the assessment might say that they've got to do eight or whatever it is, but what about different types of beans? What about different types of machines? And and again, that whole brings in that whole concept of competence versus proficient, and so that's brings in that whole concept of um competence versus proficient, and so that's a whole nother episode right there. But as as a workforce, we, we unfortunately, I think um a very let's call it minimalistic in our approach, uh, to say, give them the basic skills and we'll teach them in the workplace. Okay, if, if that works, that's fine, but then don't complain about it.

Angela Connell-Richards: 38:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, as industry have already said, like they're not workplace ready. So we need to change. The whole reason why we have this VET reform is to change the future of education and make sure that we are our students are, work ready. So this ties in really well with wrapping up, because I think final thoughts on this and what I'm going to say is we really need, as RTOs and vet leaders within the training industry, we really need to be looking at well, how are we ensuring that our students are work ready and how are they embracing not only the students but the trainers, embracing the technology that is out there and then passing that knowledge on. What are your final thoughts?

Maciek Fibrick: 39:10

my final thoughts are that I 100 agree with you, but I'm going to twist it a little bit to say, and again, whilst not bringing compliance into this as a term, because we know compliance is a dirty word, but what is one of the fundamental things that in the current standards 1.5, 1.6, and whatever it's called in the new standards right is industry engagement right.

Maciek Fibrick: 39:33

And now we're bringing industry. So what if, as an RTOTO, just what if we actually spoke to industry and asked them what they need yeah, right, and and actually gave them what they need? What would that do to our industry as well? And so we talk to industry all the time, so we're constantly engaging with industry. Um, let's bring that back to say I've spoken to them. Now what can I do to make my education better?

Angela Connell-Richards: 39:58

How do I incorporate that? Into the way we're delivering our training and assessment.

Maciek Fibrick: 40:02

Absolutely so. Yeah, it's not hard. It doesn't have to be compliance, a burden or costly, Just talk to people and incorporate.

Angela Connell-Richards: 40:12

Yeah, yeah, totally Well. Thank you very much for another great episode.

Angela Connell-Richards: 40:19

I love catching up with you, maychek, because we're also we're very opinionated when it comes to the training industry and I'm hoping that's what our audience are feeling with dropping in on a consultant's conversation, because we are very passionate, we love what we do and I'm sure there's going to be times where we're not going to agree because we're not the same people and we don't do things the same, but that's totally fine. That's where I learn. I learn from other people and, in particular, my colleagues in the industry. So thank you very much, maychek, for today's session. I look forward to catching up with you for our next one, which is going to be on the essentials of compliant training system. Bye for now, everyone. See you soon.