SPEAKER_00: 0:27

Welcome to the RTO superhero podcast with me, Angela Connell Richards and my guest, Lauren Hollows. Welcome, Lauren. Hello. Hello again. Welcome back. Lovely to have you online again today. So today's topic is a hot topic. Lauren jumped online on LinkedIn recently and uh had a bit of a rant about hiring the right RTO consultant. And I was like, yeah, go for it, Lauren. That's fantastic because I'm sick of seeing this happening in our industry. So we thought we'd do this as our hot topic today. So, Lauren, you worked with this, you you got this recent client that came to you who was uh had been with a consultant. Share share with the audience what happened.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16

So, look, this is not an unfamiliar story for Angela and I'm sure some of the listeners. Um, but you know, person goes to say, I want an RTO, they go and look around, they find someone with a Schmick website, and this person says, No worries, we can set it all up for you. We'll take care of everything, we'll do this, we'll do this. Application goes in. This person is applying for a crime cost, so they're obviously paying for a rental for a facility. Um and you know, six months goes down the track, nine months goes down the track. Okay, all of a sudden, they finally get their call from Aspar. And now, in this particular case, this consultant had actually retired. So they go, Oh, look, we've retired now. Uh, go and call this person. They call this person, this person goes, that's fine, but I'm gonna charge you a little bit more as well. So they're now$60,000 into an audit. Come the day of the audit, and this consultant jumps on, had advised them they didn't need a 2025 compliance set of policies to provide to them, and was like, No, it's fine, as long as we have a plan for how we're gonna update, you know, everything's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

And was this post-1 July submission?

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

Yes, uh, so it wasn't a post-1 July submission, it was it was actually a tw early 2024, late 2023 submission, which is there's a couple of CRICOS ones sitting in that bucket.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42

Yeah. Um however, you need to.

SPEAKER_01: 2:44

However, all of those providers have had an email which basically said we'll refund your money, or we will we expect you to apply administering. Oh, so they received an email. So most I I know at least four or five providers that have gotten an email that submitted in the old standards and said, Do you want to continue to move forward? If so, you'll need to be ready for 2025. They've all replied and said, Yep. So these guys got their audit. Four and a half hours was the audit, at which point the consultant was arguing with the Askla performance assessor, saying, We don't need to have a policy set compliance 2025, as long as I have planned. I've got plenty of RTOs that don't have their policies fully up to date with 2025. At which case I turned around to the decline. I was like, stop. At that point, with all due respect, you left. Like, and he was like, Yes. He said, at that point, the Ask performance assessor turned around and said, I'm not going to continue to argue with you. You're not getting registration without a compliance set of policies to show how you're going to adhere to the 2025 standards. And I think it's best that you leave this call and this conversation now. And just so that everyone knows, if you have that experience, you are definitely getting your RTO registration rejected, and you have definitely chosen the wrong consultant. The wrong consultant, right? So I turned around and did my spiel, and I was like, look, this is kind of this is where you're sitting at. Like I'm going to be honest with you. I said, at the end of the day, you have to do the hard yards. If any, if you can go and talk to any consultant, if they tell you they're going to do everything for you, you're you're you're gonna get into trouble because ASCII does not care about what the consultant knows. Ask knows that there are plenty of us consultants out there that know how to run an RTO. However, they're not accrediting us to run the RTO, they're accrediting you as your PEO or your CEO. You have to know how to run the RTO, you have to know your policies, you have to know how your assessment tools are compliant, you have to know how you're training assessment strategies. So I turn around and I was like, look, we can fix this. We need an extension. I was like, but you are going to be working two to three to four hours a week. You're gonna watch the videos I tell you to watch, you're gonna read the policies I tell you to read, you're gonna sit in on all of the validations, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna contextualize your train, we're gonna update all your training and assessment strategies, you're gonna sit there with your trainers so that you understand how to create a proper, compliant, you know, trainer matrix. I said, We'll help you, we'll give you the templates and we'll explain to you why you need to include these things, but you have to be willing to do the hard work. Like, it's not me that's gonna be running your RTO. I am not the boss of your RTO. You are the boss of your RTO, you have to run your RTO on a day-to-day basis, and so you have to be able to speak to it. I said, So gave him my quote, you know, set him up, and he came, he came back to me and he goes, I said, No, I feel very confident. And he and I was like, Are you gonna put in hard work? Like, I'm I am mean in some ways, I am mean to my clients. I'm sorry, they they all know this about me. Um, but I'm like, but you have to be working, like I'm you are gonna do this work, you're gonna do all your homework, you're gonna do all of this, you're gonna like you're gonna put in all the hours with me and with my team. And he was like, Yes, absolutely, that's what I'm gonna do. Like, I'm fully committed to this. And like, he's like, This is what I wanted to hear. I'm like, all right, let's let's let's do this, you know. Um but it's just frustrating because this, you know, this guy, yes, it is on the clients to pick the right person, but I also understand, like I've been through eight can I've been through eight accountants in the last five years. Yeah, right. And like I go and I research and I have a conversation with the accountant beforehand, and they seem to tell me all of the right things. And then all of a sudden, like we get to a point, they're like, Oh, and so now in order to do your taxes, we're gonna need da da da da da da da. I'm like, you've given me like a week and a half to where I'm like, why were we why do we not put this process in place? We have zero. Why did we not put that process in place at the beginning of the year? Why did we not do this? And they're like, Yeah, I'm just gonna need that. Um, if you want us to process this, and this I'm like, if I with like my head on, cannot choose a good consultant in the accounting space, yeah. I have I have grace for people who go into RTO world and think they're working with a consultant, then the cult consultant sounds like they know what they're doing. But we do need to like do a better job of educating people on the signs and signals that you may be working with a with a consultant's that that's gonna get you into trouble because it is heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to have to say to someone, I know you've spent 60, 70, 80, 90,$100,000, and that was all for nothing. Yeah, like there's nothing there that I can use. I can't use those tools, I can't use those policies because you you ask was literally just gone and told you that they're all wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 7:52

Yeah, and they're already they're not even to the new standards or anything either. I I get frustrated when uh and and we get it all the time where people come to us and say, uh, I just want you to do everything. Uh and the thing is people aren't need to understand we're not being audited, you are being audited. Like when you go to audit, it Ask's expectation is that you're going to understand the policies, the procedures, the documents, the processes, the systems, everything. Um we can't, we can't, we're not the matrix. We can't just stick something in the back of your knock and download it. You need to actually do the hard yards. If you're serious about setting up an RTO or managing an RTO, you really need to be serious about learning as much as you can about the system. Um, and I just don't understand these consultants who say, Oh, don't worry, we'll do everything for you. I was like, Well, if you're are you also going to run the RTO for them? I I I just think they're setting that up for failure.

SPEAKER_01: 9:02

That particular line is really like, and everyone listening, that if if your consultant says to you, you don't need to know that, I will take care of all of that, we will do everything, any of those three lines, run like the wind. Okay, that person is going to steal your money. Run like the effing wind. Like you are, there is no ASCOR auditor that is going to turn around and go, it's okay that you, as the CEO, PEO of your organization, don't know about the works.

SPEAKER_00: 9:37

Yeah. Yeah. No, the as a CEO, any senior management role, you need to understand the compliance requirements and your systems in your organization. And you can't be like for the listeners, it's seriously, it's like are you serious about doing what you're doing? Like, even for initial registration, we can hold your hand, we can teach you, we can uh provide the documentation, but in the world, you've got to be committed to learning as much as you can about the compliance requirements because in the world it's your head that's on the chopping board. If if there's any non-compliances as initial or re-registration, you're the one that's gonna cop it, not the consultant. So you should really be setting yourself up uh for it. So I'm gonna ask you a question. How can that mindset of setting up an RTO for failure when it comes to compliance? How like really, what do you think people should be doing?

SPEAKER_01: 10:41

So, I mean, look, anytime you go into any business, I I expect there's gonna be a learning curve, right? Um, I've been in business, I I've had several businesses now. To this day, I continue to get hit with learning curves as to like, oh, okay, all right, cool. So this is how we've got to do this. And whether it's in terms of finance or HR or you know, change in legislation or or yeah, like new WHS updates. Like, you know, this year we've gone around to all of our staff and we've gone, okay, here's our new working from home policy, and we've got to have you do this checklist because, like, you know, if you if you're working from home and you fall and hit your head, that's on me. Like, that's my fault as your like if you're on the job when you're doing that, I'm your employer. Like, so I've got to have a process in place for checking these sorts of things. And so I think that anyone going into any sort of business, like if you are gonna run your own business, you need to go into it going, I I don't know what I don't know, and I am going to need to find people to support me through that process. But part of finding people who will support me through that process is not just looking for people who will support me and do things for me, but it's looking for people who will upskill me to ask the right questions. And, you know, so like in finance or in accounting, you know, my mom is a bookkeeper, and so she was like, okay, so when you're looking for a bookkeeper, I want you to ask these questions. And when you're looking for an accountant, I want you to ask these questions. And you know, when we were looking at um, you know, when like one of the I I got a learning curve early, early in the piece where I didn't realize that there was different work cover in every state. So like I went out and got my, you know, got my insurance, thought I was being a good gal, and then got contacted by one of the states, and they're like, You don't have work time with us. I'm gonna work on a certificate of sender three. And they were like, we have an individual for our state. I'm like, what? I I didn't I didn't know, I'm sorry. And they were like, that's not an excuse. I'm like, yeah, I kind of say that to my clients all the time. So you're right. Yep, okay, cop the fine, you know, pre, you know, you know, repay back the fact that I've had a staff member working in that state for nine months and apparently didn't realize that I needed a work cover certificate. So I've now got four different work cover certificates for four different freaking states, which I think is stupid, but that's another rant. Um, but it's it is, it's kind of going into the process with the idea of in this particular area, I need to ask these questions, you know, and I'm still sort of mapping out for myself as a broad business, like any business, what are the areas that I really need to cover? Like my brother was talking to me the other day, he's like, I'm gonna need like a quality policy, like his and his organization is huge. Um, and but it's you know, it's all brand new and stuff like that. And I was like, Well, you know, you need to cover this, you need to cover this, and you need to cover this, and you need to cover this. And he was like, My brother's a sales guy, he's very, you know, like he's the guy that'll go out and sell a million dollars in a day. Um, but when you start talking about policies and procedures, the eyes glaze over the thing, go, this is not my bag. Um so you know, like I'm starting, I'm slowly kind of getting that framework together. And ISO is a good um sort of a base for that, I think. But it really is having that business mindset. And you and I are quite big on this. We when you run an RTO, you need to understand RTO, you need to understand vet, and that's complex as it is. What is more complex is running an actual business. Yes. So, you know, insurances and legislation and safety and finance and HR and you know, all of this sort of stuff, and having a framework of going, who are the people around me that I can I can go, okay, I'm gonna work with you. And your consultant is kind of your mentor, and that's I kind of think that's the way that you want to look at it is you want to have somebody who is gonna mentor you to build you up to kind of go, these are like you know, when when you're hiring an admin, these are the questions that you should ask. These are the skills that we're gonna be looking for when you're hiring a trainer, these are the questions you want to ask, these are the skills that we're gonna be looking for, you know. Because if you ask, if you talk to a trainer, you know, the questions that I want you to ask are things like, okay, so talk to me about, you know, a time when you've had a student crack it in your class. How have you managed that situation? You know, how do you how do you go when you're working on site with an employer? How do you manage that relationship of working with the employer while keeping the student happy and everything like that? You know, how are you gonna approach the issue of like there's something in the training package that you have to teach? It's out of date, you know, how do you approach that? Like, I love that question for trainers because so often I'll see trainers go, right, guys, we're gonna have to talk about this now. No, it's completely, you know, irrelevant, but the training point all right the RTR requires that we teach this. And I'm like, thank you. Like, thank you very much. You can you can move on. Um, yeah. So it's it's it's kind of getting yourself into that that headset of like who is gonna be my mentor to build my skills so that I can run this, so that I can make my own decisions, as opposed to who's gonna be the guru who, you know, tells me all of the answers. You know, like that that's the kind of like mindset shift that I think you need to have when you're looking for a consultant in any industry.

SPEAKER_00: 16:56

So give me a quick checklist. What should uh listeners who are online now, whether it's for initial registration or re-registration, what should they be looking for when they go looking for a consultant?

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

Recent audit experience. Talk about recent audit experience. When was the last time you were in an audit? What's your relationship like with the regulator? Um if you're going into re-reg on the back foot, there's a difference in the type of consultant that I think you necessarily need. If you're going to a consultant with an intent to cancel, I'm gonna go to AAT, that's a totally different ball game to someone, I want to, I'm I'm gonna do a registration, I want to have a long-term relationship with you for the next three to four years. Um, or I'm coming, you know, I'm a year out into uh in a year we'll be doing re-registration. Let's get everything sorted before we go into it. Um, there are AAT consultants in our industry who very much focus on AAT. They have very different relationships with the regulator, totally understandably so. Um, but it's because they that's their specialization. So, like, you know, Peter Ducas, Judith Bowler, um, you know, Rayleigh Bartlett, all AAT specialists have a very different relationship and approach to managing an AAT project than you and I would. In hey, I want to start up an RTO, let's, you know, um, let's have a relationship for the next three to four years so that you know you can build my skills, lay the lay a solid foundation with me, and then keep checking in with me to make sure that you know um I'm paddling in the right direction, right?

SPEAKER_00: 18:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:46

And when we're working with different, that's a really different relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 18:50

It is a very big and you really need to know exactly what you need. Yeah. And we're when we're working with re-registration, ideally we want a minimum of six months to prepare them. So it's um it's a process of that six months where we're training them on, or in particular now, all the new legislation, as well as our policies, procedures, and documents, so that they can talk to them when they go to audit and actually demonstrate that they've implemented them. So that's the other thing. Um, having to do quick fixes or the tribunal, I've done them, but it's not my ideal client. My ideal client is one that's prepared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:33

And I mean, like I know with this particular client that we had, we turned around and we said, Look, we'll we'll help you write the letter to the regulator. If they come back and say it's got to be done in 30 days, we just turned around and said, We just can't, we just can't, we won't vote. Yeah, because I can't upskill you in that time. I don't have the team to support it. Um it's gonna look like a rush job anyway. So, you know, we won't do it. Um, so yeah, but for if you're going in for a registration or a re-registration and it and it is more of a proactive sort of a process, what's your experience with the regulator? What's your relationship like with the regulator? Um, what is gonna be my involvement and my team's involvement in this process? Um, and what is the, you know, sort of what's the three, six month, twelve-month outlook of what our relationship looks like? Um, you know, where do you ideally want to end up with? And and again, red flags would be we do it all. Red flags would be, um, you know, we want to put you onto a$20,000 a month plan, we can get rid of your compliance person, we'll put our compliance person in there. Um, you know, um somebody coming in and going, you know, oh well that you're fucked, you know, you should just shut down right now. Um I've I've I've had RTOs come to me with that before. Um, so you know, I think any of those sorts of signs where it's like we'll totally take this off your plate, um, as opposed to we'll work with you and we'll upskill you, if there's no educative component to the services that are being offered, I would take that as a red flag. 100%. Yeah. And and and go and ask them for a list of referrals. Um, please don't just go by what's on their website. Go and ask them for a list of referrals that they can talk to. You should be able to see a couple of RTOs that are either have been recently registered, that have recently achieved their registration or their re-registration. Um, and preferably, you know, a new a new registration or a CRICOS re-reg should be should be sitting there. Ideally, a couple within the last year is what I would look for, because it means they've actually gotten people through. Um, as opposed to like, you know, if you're going on to and they're giving you a reference list and you're jumping on there and going, well, hold on a second, you only got two years registration, you know, or two years re-registration as opposed to your seven years, or well, you've got re-registration, but you've got a condition on your registration. Why do you have a condition on your registration? Like, and that's you know, that takes a little bit of knowledge, but it's it's there in TGA. So, like, get a list of references, go and check out what's on there on TGA, and you know, speak to the CEO or speak to their referee. Again, make sure that that referee that for that organization is actually someone listed on TGA. Um, but do that little bit of due diligence because it re ASCAR's gonna actually ask you how you've arrived at using your consultant as your consultant and what process you followed. Like in the last three audits I've had, ASCA made a specific point of asking the client, how did you decide what consultant you would work with? You know, um, what checks did you do? Did you check her qualifications? Now I, you know, I was very, very fortunate. The auditors were very lovely to me and they were very um, you know, they were like, okay, cool, you know, and we got our registration and everything like that. So, you know, that's that's great. Um, but be prepared to answer that question and put some thought into the process, not just like, well, my brother Joe said that they were really good. Or like, you know, they had a really pretty website. Like, you know, go and take a look. You know, good out there. They put out, you know, like they put out articles, they put out, you know, um podcasts like we do. They, you know, they put lots of content out there generally. Um, you know, like, you know, Claire Field does heaps of articles and and and news articles, and you know, you and I do podcasts and um, you know, so some of them run some of them run webinars or they run workshops or you know, industry events. So look for people who are giving a little bit back to industry as well isn't I is it is another good way to kind of go, hey, look, these people, you know, know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 24:07

Yeah, so I'm gonna wrap that up in a little checklist. So, from what I've heard from Lauren, um, and and also my advice as well. So, if you were to go for a checklist with how to hire the right consultant, it would be looking at their background, their experience, how many audits have they been to, what audits have they been to in the last uh year, getting referees uh from previous clients, um, what experience and knowledge do they have in the industry? Have they um have they got other things that they uh distribute, like videos, or you I know you've got you're very active on your YouTube channel, uh podcasts, um uh webinars, things like that. Um, but most importantly, you need to identify is that consultant gonna be able to work with you and and what are your expectations? And never ever like never go to a consultant thinking that they they can do everything for you because honestly, I don't want to set you up for failure. Uh Lauren doesn't want to set you up for failure. We want you to get through your Askel audit and be compliant. So the process we have is for you to set you up for success, to ensure that you have everything you need in order to get to that audit and speak to the policies and procedures, understand the system, understand the compliance requirements on how to implement it, and and take responsibility, accountability, which is one of the requirements under the new standards now. You've got to be accountable. And for those consultants that are out there that offer to do everything, stop it. Really, really, you need to no you need to put a system in place. You're really setting up uh people for failure, um, taking their money when you should be, you know, if you really want to provide a good service to our industry sector, we need to teach them. We need to teach people how to fit, how to do it themselves, and then fly, be free. Um so yeah, well, thank you very much, Lauren. That was very informative, and I love it when you get passionate about a topic, and that's why I thought I'd bring up this topic today, because uh I know that um it you're we're we're both on the same page when it comes to uh poor clients that are out there who've hired the wrong people and and led them down the wrong path. And honestly, we just want to make sure that you you're getting the right advice. So, yeah. Thank you very much, uh Lauren, for joining me again today. Uh, in our next podcast, we're going to be going through the changes in training packages. There are a number of new changes that are uh coming uh again, and um Lauren's gonna share with me uh some techniques and tools and things that you need to know about uh these changes. Thank you again, Lauren. See you next time. Okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 27:25

I'm trying.